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<title>AskPhilosophers.org | "Probability"</title>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Andrew N. Carpenter responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ What makes conspiracy theories improbable? 
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Response from: Andrew N. Carpenter<br />

<blockquote>I think the more interesting question is what makes wildlyimplausible conspiracy theories seem plausible to so many. I think that part ofthe problem is that it takes some specialized training to be able to compute probabilitiesaccurately, and most without that training tend to overestimate how likely itis that a complicated conspiracy really occurred, and I think that part of the problemis that many do not have adequate accounts of how one event might or might notexplain another. </p><p class="MsoNormal">I don’t think, however, that these “philosophical” issueswhy so many find those implausible theories highly intriguing – I imagine thereis are interesting sociological , psychological, and political explanation forthis, and I hope that other panelists may be able to say more.</blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 10:00:43 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/3040</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Mathematics, Probability - Daniel J. Velleman responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ In the probability thread, multiple philosophers mention examples of zero-probability events that aren't necessarily "impossible" (like flipping an infinite number of heads in a row). Arriving at a probability of zero in these instances relies on saying that 1/infinity = 0. But this math seems misleading. Don't mathematicians rely on more precise language to avoid this paradoxical result, by saying that "the limit of 1/x as x approaches infinity = 0," rather than simply "1/x = 0"? I feel like there must be some way to distinguish (supposedly) zero-probability events that are actually possible and zero-probability events that are impossible. Thanks!
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Response from: Daniel J. Velleman<br />

<blockquote>To answer this question, it may be helpful to say something about the mathematical formalism usually used in probability theory.  The first step in applying probability theory to study some random process is to identify the set of all possible outcomes of the process, which is called the <em>sample space</em>.  For example, in the case of an infinite sequence of coin flips, the sample space is the set of all infinite sequences of H's and T's (representing heads and tails).  Probabilities are assigned to <em>events</em>, which are represented by subsets of the sample space.  For example, in the case of an infinite sequence of coin flips, the set of all HT-sequences  that start with H represents the event that the first coin flip was a heads, and (assuming the coin is fair) this event would have probability 1/2.  The set of sequences that start with HT is a subset of the first one, and it represents the event that the first flip was heads and the second tails; it has probability 1/4.<br><br>Now, consider some infinite HT-sequence s.  For any positive integer n, we can consider the set of all sequences that agree with s for the first n terms.  This set contains s, and imitating the reasoning in the last paragraph we see that it represents the event that the first n coin flips come out as specified by s, which has probability 1/2<sup>n</sup>.  Since {s} is a subset of every one of these sets, the event that the entire infinite sequence is exactly s must have probability less than 1/2<sup>n</sup> for every n.  But that means that the event must have probability 0.  So you are absolutely right that the reasoning here involves a limiting process: the probability is 0 because 1/2<sup>n</sup> approaches 0 as n approaches infinity.<br><br>With this background, it is also now easy to see the distinction between zero-probability events that are possible and those that are impossible.  The event that the entire infinite sequence is s is represented by the set {s}.  It has probability 0, but is possible.  The event that the first flip is both a heads and also a tails is represented by the empty set (since there are no elements of the sample space that fit this description); it has probability 0 and is impossible.</blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jul 2009 22:23:27 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2735</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Thomas Pogge responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ Suppose that I know all the laws of physics and the position of all the atoms in the universe. I flip a coin. Obviously I will know with 100% certainty what the outcome will be.<br><br>Suppose I am a mere mortal, I will only be able to say that there is a 50% chance of heads and a 50% chance of tails.<br><br>So probability is a measure of our ignorance? That cannot be right! Probability is something intrinsic to reality. But how can an uncertainty be intrinsic without reference to a knower?
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Response from: Thomas Pogge<br />

<blockquote><p>Sometimes probability is a measure of our ignorance. If you give me a quarter with the instruction to hide it in one of my fisted hands while your eyes are closed (and I do as you say), then you'll not know which hand holds the coin. (I will know, I can feel it.) So you can only assign probabilities because you lack knowledge.</p><p>In other cases, probability is objective. If current physics is right, then some processes in nature are in principle unpredictable or such that their outcome is uncertain. Yes, this suggests some reference to a knower: it means that it's impossible for there to be someone who can predict or be certain about the outcome. But why should this be problematic? The fact that a black hole emits no light can be expressed by saying that black holes are invisible - and yet the fact is "intrinsic to reality," involves no essential reference to beings with eyes.<br /></p></blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 00:43:00 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2516</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Daniel J. Velleman responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ A friend posed a problem that according to him reveals an inconsistency in mathematics.  There are two envelopes with money in them, and you are given one envelope.  One envelope has twice the amount of money as the other, but you don't know which one is which.  The question is, if you are trying to maximize your money, after you are given your envelope, should you switch to the other envelope if given the chance?  One analysis is: let a denote the smaller amount. Either you have a or 2a in your envelope, and you would switch to 2a or a, respectively, and since these have the same chance of happening before and after, you don't improve and it doesn't matter if you switch.  The other analysis is: let x denote the value in your envelope. The other envelope has either twice what is in yours or it has half of what is in yours.  Each of these has probability of .5, so .5(2x) + .5(.5x) = 1.2x, which is greater than the x that you started with, so you do improve and should switch. Is there something wrong with the latter analysis?  If so, where does it go wrong?  Does this bear on inconsistency in mathematics or in probability? 
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Response from: Daniel J. Velleman<br />

<blockquote>I'd like to add a little bit to what Thomas has said.  Probability problems can be tricky because the answers sometimes depend on small details about exactly what procedure was followed.  For example, the problem says that "you are given one envelope."  Who gave you the envelope?  Did the person who gave you the envelope know which envelope was which?  Was he a very stingy person, who might have been more likely to give you the envelope with the smaller amount of money?  If so, then the probability that you have the smaller amount might not be 1/2.<br /><br />But that is clearly not the intent of the problem, so let us assume that the person who gave you the envelope flipped a coin to decide which envelope to give you.  Then, as Thomas says, the probability is 1/2 that you have the small amount and 1/2 that you have the large amount.  Suppose that you open your envelope and find $100 in it.  You now know that the other envelope contains either $50 or $200.  Do these two outcomes still have probability 1/2 each?  Not necessarily; by opening your envelope you acquired new information, and that information could change the probabilities.  The answer depends on what procedure was used to decide how much money to put in the envelopes.<br /><br />Suppose the person who filled the envelopes used the following procedure: they chose a random integer x from 1 to 100, with each integer being chosen with probability 1/100.  Then they put $x in one envelope and $2x in the other.  In that case, a short calculation using the laws of conditional probability shows that, yes, the probability is 1/2 that the other envelope contains $50 and 1/2 that it contains $200.  The expected value of the amount of money in the other envelope is therefore $125, so you would be well-advised to switch.<br /><br />But now suppose the envelopes were filled by choosing x between 1 and 50, and putting $x in one and $2x in the other.  Now, when you find $100 in your envelope, you know for sure that the other envelope contains $50, and you should not switch.<br /><br />What if we don't know anything about how the envelopes were filled?  Now the question is more difficult, but I would be inclined to say that probability theory cannot tell us the probability of the other envelope containing $50 or $200.  Probability theory can only tell us how to compute probabilities if we have a well-defined probability distribution for the possible outcomes of the random event under consideration.  The choice of this probability distribution is a matter of interpretation; it is not a purely mathematical issue.  If we don't have enough information to determine the distribution, then it is not clear that there is a right answer to the probability question.</blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:39:24 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2498</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Thomas Pogge responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ A friend posed a problem that according to him reveals an inconsistency in mathematics.  There are two envelopes with money in them, and you are given one envelope.  One envelope has twice the amount of money as the other, but you don't know which one is which.  The question is, if you are trying to maximize your money, after you are given your envelope, should you switch to the other envelope if given the chance?  One analysis is: let a denote the smaller amount. Either you have a or 2a in your envelope, and you would switch to 2a or a, respectively, and since these have the same chance of happening before and after, you don't improve and it doesn't matter if you switch.  The other analysis is: let x denote the value in your envelope. The other envelope has either twice what is in yours or it has half of what is in yours.  Each of these has probability of .5, so .5(2x) + .5(.5x) = 1.2x, which is greater than the x that you started with, so you do improve and should switch. Is there something wrong with the latter analysis?  If so, where does it go wrong?  Does this bear on inconsistency in mathematics or in probability? 
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Response from: Thomas Pogge<br />

<blockquote><p>Wouldn't it be nice if mathematics could be brought down so easily! But, sorry, no cigar this time.</p><p>It is indeed true that the probability that you are holding the fat or meager envelope is 50/50. Here are the two cases:<br /></p><p>1. If you are holding the meager envelope, then switching gets you from x to 2x for a gain of x.</p><p> 2. If you are holding the fat envelope, then switching gets you from x to 1/2 x for a loss of 1/2 x.</p><p>But note that the "x" in these two cases does not signify the same amount of money. In Case 1, x is the smaller amount. In Case 2, x is the larger amount. In Case 1, your gain from switching is the smaller amount. In Case 2, your loss from switching is 1/2 the larger amount (equal to the smaller amount).</p><p>The illusion arises because, at first blush, the situation seems similar to another where someone offers to give you 50/50 odds on either doubling or halving some fixed amount of money you have. There your reasoning goes through and you are well-advised to accept. Your probability-weighted pay-off is 1.25x (a little more than you wrote).</p><p>But the problem your friend posed is different. Here you do not have a 50/50 chance of either doubling or halving some fixed amount of money. Rather, you have a 50/50 chance of either doubling a small amount of money or halving a large amount of money.<br /></p></blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 16:39:24 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2498</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Marc Lange responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ What is defective about reasoning in the following way. Say I flip an ordinary coin and it lands heads 20 times in a row. Then I say: "Well, this combination of 20 flips is as likely as any other combination of 20 flips, so it's not so strange."
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Response from: Marc Lange<br />

<blockquote><p>This is an excellent question. You are right: getting heads twenty times in a row is exactly as likely as, say, HTTHTHHTTTHHTHTHHTTH. </p><p>However, 20 heads is much less likely than (say) 10 heads and 10 tails. There are many more twenty-flip combinations that yield 10 heads and 10 tails than twenty-flip combinations that yield 20 heads. There are more ways to get 10 H and 10 T than to get 20 H. </p><p>So getting 20 heads is less likely (assuming the coin is fair) than getting 10 heads and 10 tails. Yet getting 20 heads is exactly as likely as getting a particular combination of 10 heads and 10 tails, such as HTTHTHHTTTHHTHTHHTTH.</p><p>Other cases of "strangeness" are a bit more difficult to diagnose. For instance, suppose a lottery is run and ticket #1729 wins. This outcome is extremely unlikely if the lottery is fair (let's suppose there are 10,000 tickets), but extremely likely if the lottery was fixed for #1729. Does this mean that after this ticket is drawn, we should conclude that the lottery was probably fixed for #1729 (and so the outcome was not so "strange" after all)?<br /></p><p>No! In light of the winning ticket, our confidence that the lottery is fair should reflect not only the likelihood of the outcome if the lottery is fair, but also our initial confidence (before the ticket was drawn, that is) that the lottery was fair. If there was no particular reason before the ticket was drawn for us to have been suspicious that the lottery was fixed for #1729, then the outcome will do very little to persuade us that the lottery was fixed for #1729. On the other hand, if #1729 was owned by the person running the lottery, then we might have been suspicious initially that the lottery would be fixed for #1729, in which case this ticket might count as very strong evidence that the lottery was in fact fixed for #1729.<br /> </p><p><br /></p></blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:58:46 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2432</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability, Religion - Oliver Leaman responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ In support of the argument to design, people often remark that the order seen in nature is "improbable" and so requires a special explanation--i.e., a designer. But if order is seen throughout nature, in what sense is it improbable?
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Response from: Oliver Leaman<br />

<blockquote>The improbability is taken to be that it came about through chance, or without someone intending it to be like that. The example is often giving of someone walking on a beach and finding a watch, never having seen one before. When she looks at it, she will not know what it is or what it does, but she is entitled to conclude that it could not have come about through chance, since it is so complex and organized. Whether that is a good argument is much debated, of course, but that is where the improbability is taken to lie.</blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 12:16:34 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2325</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Peter Smith responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ Derren Brown recently had a show in which he flipped ten heads in a row. He just flipped coins all day and waited for it to happen eventually. If I flip a fair coin, I should believe there's a 50% chance it will come up heads. If I flip it three times, I should believe there's a 12.5% chance it will come up heads three times. If I have eight goes at flipping it three times, it seems I should believe there's a 100% chance of flipping three heads. If that's right, what's wrong with being increasingly confident at the beginning of each set of flips that this will be the one in which I flip three heads? It's obviously a bad argument: every time I fip the coin, there's a 50% chance it will turn up heads. But how could it be rational for me to bet that during the course of a day of coin flipping I'll flip three heads eventually but not be rational for me to be increasingly confident that the next set of three flips will be of three heads as the day progresses?<br><br>Matthew<br>
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Response from: Peter Smith<br />

<blockquote>Yes, if I flip a fair coin 3 times I have a 1 in 2<sup>3</sup> (i.e. 1 in 8, i.e. 12.5%) chance of throwing three heads. How do we get that result? The rule is that if P and Q are independent events, then the chance of (P and Q) = chance of P x chance of Q. Likewise, if P, Q and R are independent events, then the chance of (P and Q and R) = chance of P x chance of Q x chance of R. If each of P, Q, R as a 1 in 2 chance, then the chance of (P and Q and R) is 1 in 2<sup>3</sup>.<br><br>But, no, if I make 8 trials at throwing three heads I <i>don't</i> have a 100% chance of pulling it off. For the trials are independent events. And the chance of any one trial being successful is still 1 in 8, irrespective of what happened in the previous trials. Likewise, the chance of any one trial being <i>un</i>successful is 7 in 8, irrespective of what happened the previous trials. So the chance of eight trials being unsuccessful is (7/8)<sup>8</sup>, which is about 0.34. So the chance of getting three heads at least once in  8 trials is .66, i.e. about two thirds (good, but very far from 100%).<br><br>Of course, the more trials at throwing three heads you make, the greater the chance of success. Thus sixteen trials will give you about a 90% chance. And the longer you go on, the nearer you get to 100%. But strictly speaking you never hit 100%: however long the sequence of trials, there remains an increasingly tiny but non-zero chance that you still fail to throw three heads every time, because the events are independent.</blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:22:15 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2064</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Probability - Peter Smith responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ Does it make sense to talk of "probability" with regard to existential claims? Consider the following propositions:<br><br>(1) Rolling snake eyes is improbable.<br>(2) The existence of Big Foot is improbable.<br><br>Though I can't quite finger the distinction, it seems to me that the notion of probability is being used very differently in (1) and (2).
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Response from: Peter Smith<br />

<blockquote><p>Yes, different notions are indeed at stake here. We need to distinguish physical probabilities from evidential probabilities.</p><p>Physical probabilities, also known as <em>chances</em>,  are what are involved when we say, for example, that</p><ol><li>An atom of plutonium 238 has a 50/50 chance of decaying within 88 years.</li><li>Smokers have a greater chance of getting lung cancer than non-smokers.</li><li>The chance of rolling 1-1 with a particular throw of a pair of fair dice is 1/36.</li></ol><p>Note, the half-life of a plutonium atom is an objective physical property of it (a property it has independently of our beliefs about it). Likewise the probability of rolling "snake eyes" is a physical property of the chance set-up. And physical chance is related to another kind of physical property, namely the <em>long-run frequency</em> with which certain events turn up in a sufficient number of trials. For example, in the long-run, about 1 throw in 36 will turn up snake eyes. But philosophers argue over the relationship between the chance of a particular event and the long-run frequency in a sequence of trials.</p><p>Epistemic probabilities, by contrast, are measures of the <em>weight of evidence</em>.  These are involved when we say, for example,</p><ol><li>Given the evidence, it is very probable that human activity is responsible for the rate of global warming.</li><li>The absence of any large footprints shows it is very unlikely that the butler did it.</li><li>The evidence (or rather lack of evidence) makes it improbable that Big Foot exists.</li></ol><p>When in a civil court, you are asked to judge "on the balance of probabilities", again you are being asked to weigh the evidence. </p><p>To help see the difference between weight of evidence and chance, note that you might well have evidence that makes it (epistemically) highly probable that a highly improbable (low-chance) event occurred. In the casino, we all seem to witness someone fairly draw the 10, J, Q, K, A of spades in sequence. A very low-chance event that on the balance of probabilities -- if we'd seen that enough checks against cheating were in place -- almost certainly happened! Note too that getting evidence for something doesn't make it more likely in the sense of increasing its chances. As we seek more evidence that you threw snake eyes three times in a row yesterday, we aren't changing the chances of that past event because it is over and done with: we can't change the physical properties of the past! </p><p>The degree to which evidence does support some conclusion is not just a matter of mere personal subjective decision. Perhaps though it is in some sense an <em>intersubjective</em> issue, a matter of how idealized unprejudiced rational thinkers would tend to weigh the evidence. Or perhaps not! Philosophers argue over this too.<br /> </p><p>Anyway, in sum, the two cases mentioned in the question do indeed involve two different notions of probability. </p><p>And in fact there's a third important notion of probability I should mention too, namely <em>subjective probabilities</em>. Subjective<em> </em>probabilities or <em>credences</em> are measures of personal <em>degrees of confidence</em>. Rationally or otherwise, I hold some beliefs much more confidently than others. My degree of confidence is reflected in how I behave on the basis of those beliefs. For example, I only risk crossing the road if I am <em>very</em> sure there is no oncoming traffic. I'll only take on a 60-40 bet that it will rain if  I am that degree more confident that it will rain than that it won't. And so on. </p><p>Of course, if I'm rational and well-informed, I will apportion my degrees of belief to the available evidence, including evidence about objective chancces.  My degree of belief that you will throw snake eyes on the next throw should ideally correspond to my best estimate of the objective chance of getting thatoutcome (if I'm overconfident, you'll be able to exploit that andextract money from me in unwise bets!). So our various notions of probability hang together more than just because chance, degree of evidential support, and degree of belief all obey (or at least under idealized conditions) the laws of the probability calculus. However, although they are linked, they<em> are</em> importantly different notions.</p><p>For a very lucid discussion of these things, see D.H. Mellor's short book, <em>Probability, A Philosophical Introduction</em>.<br /></p></blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 20:44:09 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/2054</link>
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		<title><![CDATA[ Question about Physics, Probability - Mitch Green responds]]></title>
		<description><![CDATA[ I seen a question that went, "Can there be an event that is entirely random?" I put a little bit of thought into this and concluded that the "Big Bang" theory, about the fact that the singularity became the universe (which is explained in the opening chapters of Bill Bryson's _A Short History Of Nearly Everything_) must be the only ever event that was random because no one can say why it happened and why it did not simply stay as a singularity forever. I still don't know if that is right because it wouldn't be classed as staying in that state "forever" as time did not exist. But it can be argued that it was not an event as it was the thing (if it can be referred to as a thing) that created time, on which events are obviously based. Also, if this is true wouldn't that be detrimental to the belief of free will? So this may be an answer, I'm not sure but I just wanted to know an expert's opinion on it as I am just a 17 year old student. Also I don't know if it was ok to post the title of a book on this so sorry if I shouldn't have. I also apologise because I am not very experienced about talking about these kind of things and it may seem like a child's analysis of things.
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Response from: Mitch Green<br />

<blockquote><p>Thank you for your very good question.  You have nothing to apologize for, and we're grateful  to you for asking.  I don't think I'll be able to respond to everything in what you ask, but here are a few thoughts: </p><p>Concerning the big bang, you write, "<span class="question">no one can say why it happened and why it did not simply stay as a singularity forever. </span>"  I should point out that even if it is true that no one can explain why it occurred, that doesn't mean there is no answer to be found.  Perhaps no one can answer this question *now*, but someone (maybe you!) will someday find an answer.  If that's right, then the only "randomness" here is due to our own ignorance.  </p><p> Please let me mention also that contemporary physics holds that there is a very common form of indeterminacy, that is, of randomness.  I mean what quantum theory has to say about the decay of an atom such as (some forms of) uranium.  Whether such an atom decays at a given moment is, according to contemporary qm, entirely random.  The most we can say is that there was a certain probability that it would decay within a certain period of time.<br /></p><p> Next, I don't quite see how you are connecting randomness to the issue of free will.  In fact, some philosophers concerned with free will hold that it creates its own form of free will:  On this "libertarian" theory, whether I choose to perform an action or not is an event that cannot be determined by prior causes outside myself.  That's a controversial view; many other philosophers will hold that freedom can occur even if the entire universe is deterministic.  </p><p> So as you can see, I don't have any conclusive "answers" for you, but just some suggestions for connections.  Also, if you wanto learn more, there are a lot of good things to read about this.  For instance, Robert Kane has published an excellent book called _A Contemporary Introduction to Free Will_, which you may enjoy reading.  </p><p> Don't stop wondering!<br /></p><p><br /></p></blockquote> ]]></description>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 22:09:40 EST</pubDate>
		<link>http://www.askphilosophers.org/question/1996</link>
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